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P.H.: In the same NEJM editorial, you wrote, “The global political fallout from such abuse may pose more of a threat to US security than any secrets still closely held by shackled internees at Guantánamo Bay.” What do you mean by this statement?

Bloche: Let me give an example given by Mark Sageman, who is trained in forensic psychiatry. After he attended medical school, he worked in the 1980s as a CIA operative in Afghanistan, aiding the Mujahideen to resist the Soviets. In his book Understanding Terror Networks, he argues vociferously that the current threat from Islamic extremists comes not from the Middle East, but from those of Middle Eastern descent that lie in the West, particularly the United Kingdom and Europe. They are reasonably well-educated but feel alienated from their societies because of the bigotry they face. They form networks, more recently through blogs on the Internet. They become more alienated, angry, and supportive of potential plots. Headlines and photographs from Guantánamo act like sparks and gasoline to increase their anger and make it more likely that they will enter the realm of serious terror plotting. The inevitable disclosure of interrogation tactics that violate human rights thus enhances the danger of terrorism. We are creating, in other words, more of a danger than we could conceivably quell by using these methods.